4.5 years with the ex - wtf happened

[flyingbanana]

This is probably the best place to put this. It truly is fucking with my emotions. Beginning - Started off her begging me to hang out and see me etc. finally gave in but no labels - saw other women first couple years. She would beg and beg to join me when I would meet friends. Eventually her persistence paid off and I saw her more and more. I made it clear that I had sexual needs and often. Basically every single time I saw her, or let’s say 4.3 years of 4.5 of blow jobs and making me cum and really trying and working on it so that it was pretty much a drug. In the car, her place, garage, etc. amazing. She would send me nice emails, messages, things to make me smile. Gifts too, even trips. Throughout, when I had the other women, I wasn’t Afraid to block her ignore her etc when she pissed me off. We never fought too long and always things went back to normal. We spent pretty much every evening together - she would want me to come to family events etc and I finally did. A year prior to the final break up, she tries to break up out of the blue. Her dad had recently died. Things really randomly just ended. This lasted a few weeks, but i was honest with her and told her how much of a positive influence in my life (she was and i could always count on her).

I finally get her to agree on me taking her out for an amazing night - I take her out for dinner and she blows me in my car after. We get back to our old routine and it’s all good until around Valentine’s Day this year. Around Valentine’s Day she starts ignoring me (to be fair I took her card ripped it and threw it out window- I had been on a date with another girl recently and had some interest so it affected my mood). She screams at me to get out of her car, then leaves. I actually go look if I can find the card the next day but no luck. I offer another nice night and she agrees and has good time. Things are fine a few days. I ask her to meet me and she says fine but would prefer not to. We have a nice night. The next day ghosts me like hardcore but texts still go thru. Phone rings and I leave voicemails and text her asking if she’s alright and what’s going on etc. completely silent. Finally she responds and she agrees to let me come over; we fight about something dumb at her house. I try to be the bigger person, say let’s go on our date and stop fighting. She agrees and says wait outside, she puts jacket on. I go outside and then she closes door. She never comes. That was how she ended it lol.

Since then we have actually had some contact - I will expand on that later or tomorrow. But the background is above. But long story short, she started running game on me since it ended with the random responses (after I send her gifts...), random talk on phone, a really telling comment “do you want me to want you or do you want me to fucking hate you?”

[JackZero]

As I was reading this, the whole time I was wondering what made you boyfriend material? Although you haven't described the dynamics of the relationship, it seems like she was doing a lot more giving than receiving.

Plus, from what I'm reading about the two of you, it doesn't seem like you are displaying long term relationship qualities. At 23, she probably wasn't too worried about that. At 27, she is probably thinking about what a real future looks like with you. If you are ripping up a card that she got you, you aren't making a happy future look possible. If you are 32-33 years old, you need to start acting that age. You will never keep a woman that doesn't respect you as a man.

[flyingbanana]

Thanks - to give a little more of the dynamics, it really was me being the "alpha" 98% of the time. She was "willing to pay the price." For example, we would go to events, dinner, amazing experiences, etc. In December for her birthday, we went to Vegas. This sticks out become one of her comments was I wouldn't even touch her. I had let her know her weight was kind of getting out of control, which it was, and I keep myself in shape. Since I met her, I gained 30 lbs (thankfully I have dropped about 20 lbs in the last few months with tons of cardio and eating better). But we had a special connection and she thought she understood me etc. Anyway, we basically did a ton of shit together for a few years and she was super dependable and could be counted on. I would also make her feel really great. The ripping of her card was because she knew how to push my buttons and piss me off. It was like she had become a whole different woman. This is where "the game" seems to backfire. Once she cut me off, I became the one begging her to hang; she realized in actuality I cannot get what she offered just from anyone. Constant attention, love, blowjobs, sex, dependability without giving a ton in return is in fact (seemingly?) hard to find.  I have tried since the breakup to no success nor have I ever met someone that into me before. She truly wanted me to be happy and would do whatever it took.  


From the get go though, I treated her as more sexual gratification and it just developed from that. So the beginning of the "relationship" was from the get-sex perspective - me acting like I could get any girl (and in fact I had no issues re dates, etc. had been a pretty successful pua) actually seems to have backfired. It seems unsustainable and quite ironically, when I am the one that wants everything that she had wanted when I was the one with the power, she easily treated/treats me like shit. Since she has broken things off, she has blocked me, etc. but will occasionally talk to me. She only talks to me when I send her gift cards, purses, buy her stuff like air pods and send, etc. But she only has seen me twice (for walks...though she made out with me) and generally has treated me the way a pua would treat a prospect. It is really mind-blowing to be on this end of it. I find myself calling leaving voicemails etc offering to take her out to dinner, offering to work things out, asking her to talk to me about what the real issues are so we can address them. She's ice-cold - but then will do something to keep me hanging a bit like she sent me a book about a topic she knows her and I would always discuss and that I enjoy. A lot of it relates to the fact she felt like she never had anytime to be the mythical/grass greener "herself" in her 20s. She also thinks other men are mostly "Creeps" (she has large breasts and looks very pretty when done up well) and wants to meet the mythical "nice guy." Ha the irony, when I was not the nice guy she responded well when I tried to be the "nice guy" she's ice cold.  She commented on a call she gave me "do you want me to want you or fucking hate you."  These are the random comments she will throw in but then will say fuck off, give her a year, etc.  But I keep pushing (like she did when I was in power).  I told her to tell me to my face that she doesn't love me and we can be done and I will move on; she will not respond to that and has just ignored. Long story short, I think the pua stuff from the beginning kind of made it a no-win situation for long term. But maybe it is just her and I am seeing it too broadly, I really do not know. But, I wanted to give you an idea of the dynamic and see what you think. This was not just some fling too, this was a pretty real relationship.

[JackZero]

After reading all of that, I'm guessing she must have been more insecure and didn't know her value rather than being impressed with game. If she thought she was trying to live up to you and finally realized that she would never be able to do that based on how you treated her, this was inevitable. In fact, I'm amazed you kept this going for as long as you did.

She doesn't trust you now. She probably never will. She knows that if she takes you back you will go back to your old ways with her. Now she is playing you because she realizes she's the one providing value. Now you are being stupid and trying to buy her back. That's not going to work because she doesn't respect you. You have got to let her go so she can see that you are capable of treating her better.

You'll be better off just going out with other girls. You'll do better with women once you quit trying to force your dick in her mouth and play the game with some finesse.

I hope you aren't taking what I say as me insulting you. I'm saying this stuff because you need to realize that you are the problem. It's not pickup. It's not her. It's you and the way you are trying to push/pull a relationship. You don't have to do all that. You can be a "bad boy" but that is always going to backfire when it adds no value to her life.

[flyingbanana]

This makes a lot of sense. I guess a big part is internally it just fucking sucks realizing how good I had it and it's just gone. It is also shocking how much of a "returning fox" it turned me into once things switched around. Truly shocking (like honestly textbook techniques like the responding inconsistently, keeping me hanging on, etc). I mean there was a time when I was just annoyed to even hear from her sometimes. But I knew she was in my pocket. Also, at the peak I really did have 3-4 consistent women I could always count on to fill some void, is what I am realizing (or if I cut her off for not playing by my rules, it was easy to not talk to her and during that time she would apologize, etc.) As a group it worked perfectly to make me happy - i.e. meet up with one have nice dinner hang out, then the 4.5 year one would meet me go to a bar and we would go back to her place. She was just so damn nice to me. She would call me after work to tell me about her day and everything. I wonder if it is an issue of my "inner game." Plenty of girls have told me they would of been just fine just fucking, after the fact, which is always kind of a surprise (and stings a bit) since my inner fulfillment is more than just fucking them. Also, as to her mindset (I am nearly 100 percent sure she has tried to date other men and none of them make her feel how I did - I saw her tinder profile a few times over a 3 year span, and each time she kind of freaked out about me bringing it up but also said what creeps they were). She wants something that is not out there. I think I created the feelings she always wanted but that conflicts with what she thinks of me. Hence, the (almost?) bipolar nature of her being super nice then super mean. It is really hard for me though because I am finding it very difficult to replicate what I had with her. From the dates I have went on since, 1. the girls have not been very sexual - there has been sex, but they seem to hate blowjobs. I kind of prefer blowjobs over condom sex, and I like to be sexual often. 2. the girls now have all these apps that make men super easily replaceable. So, even when I try to elicit values and everything is going well (to the point of even fucking me), I think a lot of them get a grass is greener thing I mean I just met them and we fucked. How many other guys are there.... lol. I have seen a lot of my relationships start hot with the sex and stuff but then just become routine and non-sexual. With 4.5 year girl, the sexuality was always there and I loved how she made me cum and her tits. We even would joke how she was manipulating me with blow jobs. Funny, maybe she really was gaming me... I do know if I found the same thing with another girl, I would be just as happy, it is just the rarity of finding it seems pretty high - and I hate wasting time on multiple dates with someone who in the end will not live up to my sexual needs; but the dilemma is how do you bring that up early on without it coming off as offputting? First date say something like I have a high sex drive and I really enjoy blowjobs and lots of sex? See the dilemma? What do you think? But long story short, the blowjobs and sex were mindblowing and are very hard to replace but if I did replace them, I think 4.5 year girl would fade much quicker from my mind.  Also the shitty thing is she won't just tell me to my face she doesn't love me and give me some finality. She won't even see me in person.  I think it is her who cannot get over me, so she should just be honest with her feelings.  She also has made comments like I can't just get back with you after telling everyone I "kicked you to the curb" when she will randomly give me a few mins of her time to talk on the phone....lol  Or she will still respond, like I invited her to dinner and said I would like to really know what makes her happy and truly loved, not the bullshit answers but I want to discuss the stuff from the heart and make you feel truly special and amazing and it makes sense for me to listen and discuss so I can truly understand (basically running normal early eliciting game on her).  She will respond something like I'm never planning to see you again. It's over. Now leave me alone.  But she responds... I wish I knew a good response that demonstrates value but leaves it on her so she realizes I won’t wait forever but also doesn’t confirm in her mind that she doesn’t respect me/I’m an asshole.

[JackZero]

Your problem is you. If a girl likes you she'll have sex with you without you needing to say a word. If she's crazy about you, she will give you a blowjob because she knows you get off on it and you will not have to say a word. Your longterm game will not inspire a woman to want to be passionate with you or companionship with you. Getting sex and blowjobs are easy, but you have to let it happen naturally.

Do you want to know if a girl will have sex with you? Start making out with her and get her worked up. Then take off your shirt and continue making out. If she doesn't stop or pause, you continue to amp things up. She'll want to tear off your clothes, her clothes, or both if you get her to a place where she is horny. If she feels like you have passion for her, she's going to have passion for you. She's going to WANT to give you a blowjob because of that passion.

Your other problems are you are accessible and you need closure. Fix that and you may have a chance.

[flyingbanana]

Thanks - makes sense; any ideas on how to fix the accessibility and closure issue? Just say something like good luck and if ever want to reach me you knw where to find me or what would you do knowing what you know?

[JackZero]

Jun 7, 2020 23:54:42 GMT flyingbanana said:

Thanks - makes sense; any ideas on how to fix the accessibility and closure issue? Just say something like good luck and if ever want to reach me you knw where to find me or what would you do knowing what you know?

Why do you need to say anything?  I get what you want.  You want her to respond to reassure you that she's coming back.  You want her to tell you that you still have a chance.  You don't want to give her a chance to move on without you.  You don't want somebody else getting treated the way that you were treated.

DON'T SAY ANYTHING.  Go about your business and let her go about hers.  Quit buying her gifts and inviting her out on dates.  Quit asking her how she's doing.  Quit showing her that you are desperate.  She knows you are desperate and that is making you look weak in her eyes.  

[flyingbanana]

Jun 8, 2020 0:04:50 GMT JackZero said:

Jun 7, 2020 23:54:42 GMT flyingbanana said:

Thanks - makes sense; any ideas on how to fix the accessibility and closure issue? Just say something like good luck and if ever want to reach me you knw where to find me or what would you do knowing what you know?

Why do you need to say anything?  I get what you want.  You want her to respond to reassure you that she's coming back.  You want her to tell you that you still have a chance.  You don't want to give her a chance to move on without you.  You don't want somebody else getting treated the way that you were treated.

DON'T SAY ANYTHING.  Go about your business and let her go about hers.  Quit buying her gifts and inviting her out on dates.  Quit asking her how she's doing.  Quit showing her that you are desperate.  She knows you are desperate and that is making you look weak in her eyes.  

Yeah really tough pill to swallow. She has given me chances before but apparently stuff always “went back to how it was” and she is never going to do that again. Towards the end she made comments how I just “used her” type remarks. Tried to reassure her that I actually cared about her though; she said knew but always gave in but actually doesn’t love me and hasn’t for a couple years (when we have talked post breakup-tho then a few days later we would have a nice convo and she was fine, up and down up and down); Ha some of the things she said were really mean shit to hear if I’m honest. Guess it’s weird how it can go from total love to hatred from the same person... bipolar type relationship and breakup which makes it suck more (never know if it’s going to be the mean her or the nice her), but you are right it’s more about my mind at this point. She’s not the same woman anymore anyway.

[JackZero]

Jun 8, 2020 0:23:48 GMT flyingbanana said:

Jun 8, 2020 0:04:50 GMT JackZero said:

Why do you need to say anything?  I get what you want.  You want her to respond to reassure you that she's coming back.  You want her to tell you that you still have a chance.  You don't want to give her a chance to move on without you.  You don't want somebody else getting treated the way that you were treated.

DON'T SAY ANYTHING.  Go about your business and let her go about hers.  Quit buying her gifts and inviting her out on dates.  Quit asking her how she's doing.  Quit showing her that you are desperate.  She knows you are desperate and that is making you look weak in her eyes.  

Yeah really tough pill to swallow. She has given me chances before but apparently stuff always “went back to how it was” and she is never going to do that again. Towards the end she made comments how I just “used her” type remarks. Tried to reassure her that I actually cared about her though; she knew but always gave in but actually doesn’t love me and hasn’t for a couple years. Ha really mean shit to hear if I’m honest. Guess it’s weird how it can go from total love to hatred from the same person... bipolar type relationship and breakup which makes it suck more, but you are right it’s more about my mind at this point. She’s not the same woman anymore anyway.

Funny.  I was going to ask if she ever accused you of using her.  

Quit blaming her for any of it.  Hold yourself accountable.  If you treated her better, she'd still be there.  Saying she is acting bipolar is only a way to keep yourself from taking responsibility of your actions and it will keep you from getting better.  Don't let the next girl that treats you a way you like to be treated leave because of the same thing.  Have your shit together so you aren't a guy that a woman would risk losing.

[flyingbanana]

Jun 8, 2020 0:30:22 GMT JackZero said:

Jun 8, 2020 0:23:48 GMT flyingbanana said:

Yeah really tough pill to swallow. She has given me chances before but apparently stuff always “went back to how it was” and she is never going to do that again. Towards the end she made comments how I just “used her” type remarks. Tried to reassure her that I actually cared about her though; she knew but always gave in but actually doesn’t love me and hasn’t for a couple years. Ha really mean shit to hear if I’m honest. Guess it’s weird how it can go from total love to hatred from the same person... bipolar type relationship and breakup which makes it suck more, but you are right it’s more about my mind at this point. She’s not the same woman anymore anyway.

Funny.  I was going to ask if she ever accused you of using her.  

Quit blaming her for any of it.  Hold yourself accountable.  If you treated her better, she'd still be there.  Saying she is acting bipolar is only a way to keep yourself from taking responsibility of your actions and it will keep you from getting better.  Don't let the next girl that treats you a way you like to be treated leave because of the same thing.  Have your shit together so you aren't a guy that a woman would risk losing.

Ha yeah think you are right- now I need to hope I can land something like that again LOL really wish I didn’t blow it... fuck, 4+ years of constant cumming gone. It really sucks lol. But yeah, definitely not fucking the next one up now that I realize how lucky I was honestly.
The psychological damage too, going to take a bit for me to get over it probably ha trying though. But you nailed it re no closure and her doing that to someone else.

[flyingbanana]

A little more background on this relationship, maybe you'll get a kick out of it/make sense of it. So during this breakup period, a couple months ago, she tells me she is moving to NYC (we are in the midwest). She acts like she really is and keeps it going for the week that I talk to her (limited). Then she tells me it's the last time I will talk to her and sends me a picture of moving boxes. I tell her have fun and good luck in NY. Ok.... so next day, she calls me and asks where I am to make sure she doesn't accidentally see me; turns out it was her brother moving and his moving boxes. He was moving to a different area in our city, not NY. She was helping him move. She stops by my place in her car and I give her some book she had wanted. It is like a different person. Then she goes back to being completely cold with the random calls/messages that are mostly very mean. Then I send her a gift, and there's the nice version of her calls me. Will not meet up but talks to me nicely. Then a little later back to mean, rinse repeat. Really does suck. Longest I have made it without talking to her/reaching out is 2 weeks during this process. I know this all sounds stupid and stuff, but it's a real process so want to let you know the reality of it. It really is harder than I thought - mostly because of the way she is "training" me whether or not it is intentional. In some of the convos she'll say shes not ready yet but then it will vacillate to very very mean comments. At first we would sometimes talk movies/shows and the walks. Then she made it no meeting at all and just progressively colder. Almost as if she is not completely sure that she want to 100 percent close the door. But in terms of my inner game, that makes it very difficult not to keep "trying," which has become Pavlovian -> she's mean, won't give me time of day->buy her something and send->phone call of her being nice for a few->back to being completely cold towards me until I do it again. LOL I consciously know how fucked up it is but at same time it is so hard to break this cycle without the finality. (Btw, this just dawned on me, but her mom is considered higher risk for the virus (cancer survivor); maybe the gf is just playing me the whole time and it is really about that and  she is trying to get as much out of me as she can and wouldn't meet normally like for drinks anyway- ha this is very likely me just rationalizing, because I know she has went to stores, etc.)

[Heywood Jablowme]

Almost as if she is not completely sure that she want to 100 percent close the door.

She has 4.5 years invested in a connection as well. It's tough for her to let go of that too. 

[flyingbanana]

Jun 8, 2020 19:56:49 GMT Heywood Jablowme said:

Almost as if she is not completely sure that she want to 100 percent close the door.

She has 4.5 years invested in a connection as well. It's tough for her to let go of that too. 

Exactly - that's why I do not want to completely close the door on her.  I did send her an email letting her know I was a coward for not confronting the issues of treating her like shit and not making her feel loved and understood that it was something I struggle with internally (per the closure recommendation).  At least I will get some closure if anything, but I really did fuck up and I am glad to see some of the shit I do that made it turn out this way. 

I do think she is going to have a pretty hard time moving on from me i.e. the random contacts and up and down nature of this break up period.  But she is also afraid of giving me another chance because in fact I went back to treating her like shit when she did.  In my closure email I did reference this and let her know I recognized it.  At least I recognize it now and have to work thru that so it doesn't happen with the next one.  Also - she made comments like she felt like she lost a sense of herself and who she really is as though there was some mythical different timeline of who should could of been if never met.  Thing is, she is romanticizing something that was not real - it was her chasing from when first met.  Again, I realize a lot is my issues and I have to work through them but giving you guys background to learn from this.