Why MM out of date?

[daze]

As the title reads, I don't get why the Mystery Method seems so unpopular nowadays. It seems like a pretty solid gameplan regardless of the times, but I'm newer so please enlighten me.

[JackZero]

It isn’t out of date. You can learn from it. However, the problem I have with it is that it’s a fear based strategy. It does too much to avoid rejection so the focus is on building up to attraction instead of starting from attraction. The reality is that if you start by demonstrating that you are attracted to a woman, can be charming and interesting at the same time, she is going to find a reason to be attracted to you. Mystery method avoids that for the sake of ego protection. Does mystery work? Sure it can, but it doesn’t have a good plan when it comes to changing a no to a yes.

[N2thevoid]

Sept 18, 2020 6:31:11 GMT JackZero said:

It isn’t out of date. You can learn from it. However, the problem I have with it is that it’s a fear based strategy. It does too much to avoid rejection so the focus is on building up to attraction instead of starting from attraction. The reality is that if you start by demonstrating that you are attracted to a woman, can be charming and interesting at the same time, she is going to find a reason to be attracted to you. Mystery method avoids that for the sake of ego protection. Does mystery work? Sure it can, but it doesn’t have a good plan when it comes to changing a no to a yes.

"The reality is that if you start by demonstrating that you are attracted to a woman, can be charming and interesting at the same time"

Women are turned on by interesting men that are interested in them.

[daze]

Ok I get it I think. So while mystery method seeks to create the narrative that the pua is unattracted to the target and use (possibly dishonest)DHVs to create apparent value discrepancy, it is better to be open about attraction while using honest DHVs to have a more solid gameplan?

[JackZero]

Sept 19, 2020 9:00:10 GMT daze said:

Ok I get it I think. So while mystery method seeks to create the narrative that the pua is unattracted to the target and use (possibly dishonest)DHVs to create apparent value discrepancy, it is better to be open about attraction while using honest DHVs to have a more solid gameplan?

I was with you until you said "honest DHVs", but that's just my opinion.  I don't like the idea of having to demonstrate a higher value to attract a girl.  I prefer creating an attraction where the focus is on "us" as opposed to getting her to like "me".   

[daze]

I was under the impression that DHVs create attraction because they increase the womans perception of S and R value. DHVs such as evident wealth, fitness, social proof, social skills, humor and passion.
But this idea of attracting her to the "us" dynamic is intriguing, could you elaborate?

[JackZero]

I'm not saying that DHV cannot create attraction. That attraction that's being creative is subjective. One girl may not value social proof while another one will think it's the most important thing. You have to hope she is willing to buy what you are selling. I'm not totally dismissing that as a tactic that can work because it absolutely can. Just remember, if you can no longer provide what you have sold her then her original reason for finding you attractive no longer exists.

The "us" dynamic, IMO, is far better because it causes the girl to picture the two of you together as opposed to what she is getting from you. To get her on the "us" path is simple. Show her(not necessarily say) that you are attracted to her. I find a simple compliment in the middle of an unrelated statement, without giving her time to process and respond to it, does it perfectly for me. Right there attraction is established. At this point, you should be thinking and acting as if this is mutual attraction because she is still there. Anything that you talk about should lead to the two of you doing that together, her being able to do that with you, or you being able to picture her doing that activity with you. The goal is her imagining being with you whether if it's for that night or a future date. If she can picture that moment with you, you don't need any DHV because you are already in her head.

[N2thevoid]

Jack's sorta touching on what Mark Manson in Models refers to as "friction". The concept that stipulates how commonality in values, beliefs and other intangibles matchup with another thereby determining attraction.

He gives the example of the school jock attracting the hot girl and marrying. Years later he lets himself goal turning into a couch potato, lacking ambition stuck at the same dead-end desk job. Meanwhile she improves herself, gets a high paying job she's passionate about. Does yoga 3x a week and values her physical health along with her interpersonal successes.

In the beginning, both had low friction - they were both viable to each other as they were at similar levels in terms (she was attracted to him for his male prowess; he to her for her beauty).

As things progressed the friction between the two became greater, and they found themselves undeniable on different paths. The attraction wore off.


DHV is one of the most overstated, misunderstood ideas promoted by self-proclaimed PUAs.

You want to DHV YOU. That wasn't a grammatical error, you read right.

DHVing for the benefits of others' becoming attracted to you is still needy (a scarcity mindset).

Let me use myself as an example.

I have a masters degree.
I run my own clinic managing several psychotherapists.
I am avidly into bodybuilding try my best to lead a healthy lifestyle.
I put time into my aesthetic both my home and how I dress.
I create music (this means a lot to me).

I can go on but the point I want to make is I did all this stuff for me. To secure the lifestyle I want, to help ME feel attracted to ME. For a time I pursued things out of the wrong energy - to attract rather than BE attractive.

In the end, you can't take any of this shit with you. Possessions, things you think that make you you - that somehow separate yourself from the next person don't.

When you stop living life for others, when you stop doing things to gain benefit and recognition from others as the sole reason, that's when you begin to grow into yourself and realize it's all just a BS game. A game in which there are no winners, only losers.

Like Jack said, if you become that proverbial chameleon, moulding yourself to what you think one person wants - you're playing the game.

Do the things that draw you to you, get rid of the behaviours that make you feel bad about yourself (e.g., doing things out of alignment with your values) and the right sorta people you want around will intuitively be drawn to your energy.


Look at guys like Prince, I mean for ffs the dude wore high heels, women's perfume, skin tight pants and blouse-like tops. Yet in his world it was always raining pussy.

He wasn't peacocking. He wasn't masquerading. He was just living true to himself and the life he envisioned. And well, it just so happened that this is also what attracted people to him. His honesty in being bold, creating music he liked etc. Another example in music would be David Bowe. These were guys who were even quite androgynous by societal standards (more homomsexual during their time).

[daze]

I know this is a late reply, but stellar answers from both of you N2 and Jack, much appreciated.