Sat Easter Weekend

[tinman]

Town was so busy and full of stunning, teenage girls. I'm 29 now and tend to feel a bit weird about hitting on these young 18 year olds, but they are the hottest girls, and they also tend to make up a huge percentage of the girls who I see out, so it is what it is!

First open was an opinion opener on some hot teen standing at the bar. Opinion opener. As I was asking it, she was looking at me in complete disdain/contempt which maybe threw me off of my stride a little. After I delivered the opener, I 'rooted' it to explain why I was asking her which made her temporarily snigger/smile.
Problem was that I didn't continue, really. Like after she replied to my opener with like as short of a reply as possible, her body language was that of someone trying to get away, and in turn, I didn't then continue to try to talk to her or even ask her name or whatever, and then she just walked away lol.
I guess maybe I feel a bit 'obvious' about asking her name and stuff straight after my opinion opener. Like in doing so, it makes it obvious to her that my opener was 'fake' and thus lowers my value? I dunno. But I've had this happen to me a number of times. I ask an opinion opener. She answers in a very unenthusiastic way, and then I fail to really 'follow up' with anything. (the more unenthusiastic she is, the more likely I am to just stay quiet and not carry on talking!!)

Next I open a hot girl at one of the tables who is sitting with a bunch of people, although she appears to be kind of on the outskirts of the conversation? She's looking at the dancefloor, and so I open her with that observation, and say something like ''It looks like you're dying to get out there and dance!'' She looks at me and is like ''Nah, not really''. I say ''You don't like dancing?'' and then she briefly talks about how it's too early for her to dance and how she's not in the mood or whatever. Her eyes are shifting towards her various friends who are all in their own mini-conversations with each other, and I sense that this girl doesn't want to talk to me, but I try to carry on ploughing a little and just tell her what i'm up too, and ask what she's up too tonight. As she answers, some guy she appears to know comes up too her, and she stops mid-sentence and hugs him and starts talking to him, and she appears to have forgotten she was talking to me, so I eject. Don't think she was ever too keen.

I open some girl near the bar who is standing around with her 4 hot friends. She's got a very similar jacket on to me and I open her and tell her I like her jacket and accuse her of stealing my look. One of her friends smiles like she thinks what I said was funny, but the girl I opened is looking at me like i'm an alien lol. She looks about 15, but she's obviously at least 18 (UK drinking age) and she's as hot as hell. I ask her name and then she looks at her friends as if to say ''what do I do/say!!?''. I Feel like i'm the first ever person to approach her! I tease her and say ''You're not used to talking to strangers, huh?'' And then she's like ''it's a bit weird. I don't know you''. I tell her my name and try to use some 'statements of empathy' like ''It's cool. I'm not crazy or anything''. I ask for all of their names, and they reveal them in a fairly painful way. Constantly looking at each other as if to need each others permission to say their name. Long gaps in between. It's getting awkward. I ask what they are up too for the night, and now most of them are kind of turning their back to me, and one of them is still looking at me and tells me what they are up too etc. This girl seems like the sociable one in the group, but it's all way too awkward now, and I can feel that they'd rather 

Sitting with my friends at the table drinking our cocktails and a girl is talking to one of my friends (I assume he opened her) - A few seconds after she throws a comment in my direction, and then we fall into a little conversation. She's teasing me about my jewellery or something and called me ''Justin Bieber'' lol. I say some stuff back and make her laugh a bit and We are chatting for a few minutes and I sense some 'possible' attraction and at one point I try to initiate some physical contact by just touching her arm to emphasise a point which she backs away from and calls me out on it!



She's like ''Whooaa!!'' (as if to say ''Who said you could touch me!?'') and backs away from me a few inches.



I don't overreact and I mimick her in a jokey way and also say ''Whooaa!! hashtag 'metoo'! 'A guy touched my elbow!'''' which makes her laugh. We carry on talking for another minute or 2. All illogical chat about kareoke and alchohol or something. Her friends are all at the bar now and she wants to join them and she ejects. I was never that into her so don't care.



Next set. This was one of the frustrating ones! I walk into a new bar and as soon as I set foot in the bar, I kind of do some silly dance . As if the music took my body over the second I entered the bar.



Immediately I see a girl look at me and crack up laughing and kind of clap and she's basically calling me over with her body language and eye contact. I walk over too her smiling and say ''I saw you laughing at me! You're mean!! I hate you''. She says 'Nooo!!!! I loved your entrance!! I've been sitting her for an hour and you made the best entrance i've seen all night!!''.



We start chatting and I can sense attraction instantly. Very rare for me. She's 29 and she's pretty, although I tend to only go for much younger girls, but she's still hot.She's like a 7. After a while her friends want to move too a different room in the bar and she tells me to come with her. I tell her I'll join her in a bit as i'm getting some beers with my mates.



About 15 minutes later I go into the different room and she's there near the entraane and straight away signals me over alomostm like she's been waiting for me. Seems super keen. Flirty eye contact. We are talking again and at some point she asks me if I like her and also asks me if I'm single. She's clearly attracted, no!!? I'm being silly, but I show some intent back with lots of eye contact and some light touching.



This is where I WISH I had a friggin microphone on me (not the for the first time that night if you read on!) because I don't remember how it happened, but that is basically where that interaction ended!



I can't remember if she got dragged off to dance or If I ran out of things to say, or something else! I was obviously a bit drunk. Not drunk in terms of slurring and being stupid, but drunk in terms of memory loss the following morning!! If I had to guess what happened, I think she got pulled away by one of her friends, and I decided to 'play it cool' and let her come back to me which never happened!! lol Just feels weird in hindsight. She seemed as into me as any of the other girls i've slept with this year! I can't work out HOW, if she was so into me like she appeared to be, I lost how so easily!! Seems odd to me.



So she's gone now, but within about 2 minutes, the hottest girl of the night strikes up a conversation with me and tells me that I look like the singer in a band she likes. This one is like 18 years old and close to exactly what I like!! She's like an 8.5



I pretend to know the band and soon we are kind of vibing. This one was weird because, AGAIN I somehow let her slip away, and even though I don't remember exactly how it happened, i THINK what happened was that I have this weird thing where if a girl shows interest in me first (especially a hot one), I tend to act very ALOOF! And even though mysterymethod is all about doing that and advises that, I find that when I do it, all that happens is that the girls dissappear! So i'm pretty sure she opened me, we chatted a little, and I simply didn't abide by the 90/10 rule (probably partly because of not knowing what to say but in this case, I think it was because of some internal block I have when it comes to talking to HOT girls who seem to show interest in me before I show it in them!!)



Now, she didn't show as much interest in me as the first girl to be honest, but even striking up a conversation with a guy is somewhat of an IOI in my experience. I mean, I guess I could be wrong and she was never into me (and in a weird way that'd please me because I wouldn't feel like I ;lost' her!) but I feel like there was some interest there.



After that there were just a few dancefloor approaches that I think were all insta-rejections. Like, I approached girls and said ''Hey! Who are you?'' kind of thing and they just backturned me, or I looked at them and extended my hand to try to initiate a little dance/physicality, but they didn't want too.

End of night

[JackZero]

Apr 3, 2018 12:06:02 GMT tinman said:

 We are talking again and at some point she asks me if I like her and also asks me if I'm single. 

What was your answer?  It seems like you had an opportunity to take advantage of the moment and you really didn't do anything.

[tinman]

Apr 3, 2018 13:59:26 GMT JackZero said:

Apr 3, 2018 12:06:02 GMT tinman said:

 We are talking again and at some point she asks me if I like her and also asks me if I'm single. 

What was your answer?  It seems like you had an opportunity to take advantage of the moment and you really didn't do anything.

I told her that I was single.
Very soon after that, like about 10 seconds after, is where I managed to lose her lol.

[JackZero]

This girl asked you if you LIKED and also asked if you were single. You avoided answering about liking her. 10 seconds after you avoided answering the question is when you lost her. My point is that no matter how strong your eye contact was, you didn't give her enough. That doesn't mean you have to say, "Yes, I like you," but you could have given her something like ,"I like what I see so far," just so she knows that she wouldn't be wasting her time.

It seems like that may have been your problem with both girls that shown legitimate interest in you. You didn't take advantage of what they were giving you. The girl that talked about you looking like a musician gave you material for you to work with but instead you pretended to know who she was talking about when you could have teased her about liking him(or how you guys in the UK say...fancied him). Take advantage of the moments that women give you to put them on the spot when they are flirting with you because it will set the tone for how you communicate with each other from that point on. If you start communicating with both of you knowing that there is mutual attraction there, she will stick around because there is mutual attraction there. This is especially true when you are out at bars and clubs because it's all fast paced and time isn't on your side.

[N2thevoid]

5 or so years ago I m training with this chick at my former gym. She’s cute, hot gymnist body (thick in all the right spots) lil bouncy blonde with an incredible ass. There was no flirting, or hanging out outside the gym in those few weeks we’d trained together. One day we’re doing a tricep exercise. I get up after my set, she asks what’s up for after the gym, and then tells me “We are going to grab dinner after, and then back to my place becaus I am going to fuck the sh*t out of you!”.

I was stunned, and like a deer caught in headlights I did not know how to respond in that Crisis Moment. So? I changed the subject....and in turn I doused a bucket of cold water on her chick boner.

My point with this lil anecdote is that women are strongly attracted go men who can hold the tension. If a girl throws something at you out of left, be as Bruce Lee said like water. Add this to the assumption of attraction - she hadn’t left the conversation so she’s interested, hence she’s attracted to you. If you had this assuredness in yourself you would have been able to hold the tension and take the conversation into a different context.

Women are drawn to men who can hold tension better than they can. I know 60yoc says they will often “bait” a guy to see how he responds. I don’t think its really a conscious process, but there’s some truth to it. Sure, if it helps call it a ‘congruency test’. A guy who can do well with tension is likely a cool cat who can deal with potentially volatile situations that come before him. She can feel safe and secure with him, perhaps.

Either way you had your crisis moment. She lobed you a hot potato and you just sat and looked at it. This is a good learning lesson for you because you’ll now be far better prepared to deal with this in the future.

[tinman]

SO I should have been much more verbal in terms of showing my intent and told her I thought she was cute after she showed clear interest?
I think my brain is a bit messed up from reading so much conflicting advice about how we shouldn't verbalise intent / make the girl chase / be aloof etc, as lots of mysterymethod and old school game suggests.



And any thoughts on the 'worse'/earlier interactions? Ones where i'm really swimming up stream from the ver beginning? Any drills or whatever that I can implement in order to try to help me reach the social hook point? Things to open with and things to say for the first 1-3 mins to help me push through?

[N2thevoid]

If it was an in person interaction I would have escalated things now its generally move powerful to do so non verbally but even a “Hey lets get outta here” reaching out for her hand may have sufficed. Myself I would have just gone for setting up a date the comfort and sexual tension is already there, but then again I’m not looking for a fast lay and you have to be ok willing to ‘WALK’ on a high note in the interaction.

[JackZero]

Apr 3, 2018 16:26:40 GMT tinman said:

SO I should have been much more verbal in terms of showing my intent and told her I thought she was cute after she showed clear interest?
I think my brain is a bit messed up from reading so much conflicting advice about how we shouldn't verbalise intent / make the girl chase / be aloof etc, as lots of mysterymethod and old school game suggests.

You needed to give her something to work with. She was verbal in showing her interests in you and in return it would have been perfectly fine to verbally communicate your interest. This whole "make the girl chase" concept is something that guys that are afraid to talk to women love because it takes the responsibility away from the man and puts it on the woman. The problem is that the more attractive a woman is, the less she has to chase a guy because there is always another guy around.

Apr 3, 2018 16:26:40 GMT tinman said:

And any thoughts on the 'worse'/earlier interactions? Ones where i'm really swimming up stream from the ver beginning? Any drills or whatever that I can implement in order to try to help me reach the social hook point? Things to open with and things to say for the first 1-3 mins to help me push through?

Honestly, it didn't seem like you were really into it and were putting on a false front (assuming this from what I read). It seems like you need to work on being you while interacting with women so you come across more naturally which will in turn allow you to communicate more naturally.

[N2thevoid]

Jack, dead on with the “I must get her to prize and chase me” PERCEIVED reveral in tactic. The strongest thing for a woman to feel is desire. She’s often as unsure about the guy’s intention, and if she’s still engaged she’s likely not feeling as though you’re not trying to ‘take’ from her. As I’d said before, my mantra is nothing is ever gained out of being meek.

Declaring your intentions is a very attractive quality. It polarizes women, and ya some will push back or outright reject it, but they aren’t rejecting you per se. How can they after all? Nobody can actually reject you (an entire topic in itself). Take extreme accountability. Don’t be afraid to push (not FORCE) the interaction to heighten things and not beat around the bush looking for a series of green lights.

“The problem is that the more attractive a woman is, the less she has to chase a guy because there is always another guy around.”.
I will agree with this, however most attractive women can have a scarcity frame in the sense that finding a good one is much harder. It’s a matter of the grass isn’t always greener - versus with most men where abundance is an issue (“when will I find the next girl who will be interested in me?”). Women: Quality supersedes Quantity (they have that). Most men: Quantity supersedes Quality.

[JackZero]

When I was talking about it's not likely to have a woman chase, it's in the bar and club environment. Sure, they will start chasing once they see that there is something valuable about you but that's not normally during the initial attraction.

[tinman]

Apr 3, 2018 17:48:57 GMT JackZero said:

Apr 3, 2018 16:26:40 GMT tinman said:

Honestly, it didn't seem like you were really into it and were putting on a false front (assuming this from what I read). It seems like you need to work on being you while interacting with women so you come across more naturally which will in turn allow you to communicate more naturally.

I feel as though I was 'into it' in terms of, I did think they were super hot, but I guess I wasn't sure what to say to spike their emotions and get them attracted, and I was also 'thrown off' easily by the reactions. I'm very sensitive and aware when someone is a bit weirded out / uncomfortable

[N2thevoid]

You’ve got to stop looking to woman for response. That’s you coming from scarcity. A place of lack within. Once u feel good in yourself you free yourself from the outcome and that’s when things really start to happen. And as a byproduct you draw people in without even trying.

[tinman]

I think you're saying that I care too much? That i'm too outcome dependant?
Probably. I'm just not sure how to NOT be that way. Isn't it just natural? Can someone really NOT care at all about whether they are well received or not by some stunning girl who they truly desire?
And 'feeling good in yourself' as a way to not be outcome dependant? - Can you really 'feel good' if you none of the girls you like ever want you back? Even if you have lots of hobbies and earn a footballers wage, if girls don't react well to you, doesn't it become a kind of self fulfilling prophecy?
I do feel a little bit stuck if i'm honest, though!
I am pretty certain that my 'game' has improved a fair bit, but it only comes into play on the rare instance that i'm able to reach the 'hook point' where they are contributing and don't seemingly want me to go away, which is rare. Usually i'm more or less shot down at the open (or if not outright shot down, she just barely talks or looks at me like i'm an alien, and then I bail lol)
But for example, i'm now much better at pulling girls who I already know, compared to before I discovered 'game'

[R.C]

Apr 3, 2018 12:06:02 GMT tinman said:

Town was so busy and full of stunning, teenage girls. I'm 29 now and tend to feel a bit weird about hitting on these young 18 year olds, but they are the hottest girls, and they also tend to make up a huge percentage of the girls who I see out, so it is what it is!

Teenagers creep me the fuck out. I can't help but see them as glorified toddlers.

Apr 3, 2018 12:06:02 GMT tinman said:

I guess maybe I feel a bit 'obvious' about asking her name and stuff straight after my opinion opener. Like in doing so, it makes it obvious to her that my opener was 'fake' and thus lowers my value? I dunno. But I've had this happen to me a number of times. I ask an opinion opener. She answers in a very unenthusiastic way, and then I fail to really 'follow up' with anything. (the more unenthusiastic she is, the more likely I am to just stay quiet and not carry on talking!!)

Technically speaking, you're approaching in an unrealistic way too. I get what you're saying though, I always felt like I had to get into character if I ever went indirect. Playing a role was fun in certain situations, but it also restricted me from expressing my actual self. So yes, you feel obvious because it is obvious. She knows it, you know it, the entire bar knows it.
Your followups should usually bounce off of their replies by the way. Most guys talk but few listen. Actually hear out what she has to say. Treat it like an experience, and not a process that has fixed stages you just want to get out of the way.

Apr 3, 2018 12:06:02 GMT tinman said:

Next I open a hot girl at one of the tables who is sitting with a bunch of people, although she appears to be kind of on the outskirts of the conversation? She's looking at the dancefloor, and so I open her with that observation, and say something like ''It looks like you're dying to get o
ut there and dance!'' She looks at me and is like ''Nah, not really''. I say ''You don't like dancing?'' and then she briefly talks about how it's too early for her to dance and how she's not in the mood or whatever. Her eyes are shifting towards her various friends who are all in their own mini-conversations with each other, and I sense that this girl doesn't want to talk to me, but I try to carry on ploughing a little and just tell her what i'm up too, and ask what she's up too tonight. As she answers, some guy she appears to know comes up too her, and she stops mid-sentence and hugs him and starts talking to him, and she appears to have forgotten she was talking to me, so I eject. Don't think she was ever too keen.

Take a week and try the following. Make sure your approaches are good, but bounce immediately if the girls seem unresponsive. Stop trying to plough through and invest that time and effort into the next girl. See how that works for you.

Apr 3, 2018 12:06:02 GMT tinman said:

I open some girl near the bar who is standing around with her 4 hot friends. She's got a very similar jacket on to me and I open her and tell her I like her jacket and accuse her of stealing my look. One of her friends smiles like she thinks what I said was funny, but the girl I opened is looking at me like i'm an alien lol. She looks about 15, but she's obviously at least 18 (UK drinking age) and she's as hot as hell. I ask her name and then she looks at her friends as if to say ''what do I do/say!!?''. I Feel like i'm the first ever person to approach her! I tease her and say ''You're not used to talking to strangers, huh?'' And then she's like ''it's a bit weird. I don't know you''. I tell her my name and try to use some 'statements of empathy' like ''It's cool. I'm not crazy or anything''. I ask for all of their names, and they reveal them in a fairly painful way. Constantly looking at each other as if to need each others permission to say their name. Long gaps in between. It's getting awkward. I ask what they are up too for the night, and now most of them are kind of turning their back to me, and one of them is still looking at me and tells me what they are up too etc. This girl seems like the sociable one in the group, but it's all way too awkward now, and I can feel that they'd rather 

There's something disturbing about saying someone looks 15, but they're 18 because UK, and also hot as fuck. I mean, she still looks 15 tho. Is she still hot as hell? Anyway this ties in with I said before. If it's getting awkward and you have to make an effort to get them talking, then why are you still talking to them instead of someone else?

Apr 3, 2018 12:06:02 GMT tinman said:

Sitting with my friends at the table drinking our cocktails and a girl is talking to one of my friends (I assume he opened her) - A few seconds after she throws a comment in my direction, and then we fall into a little conversation. She's teasing me about my jewellery or something and called me ''Justin Bieber'' lol. I say some stuff back and make her laugh a bit and We are chatting for a few minutes and I sense some 'possible' attraction and at one point I try to initiate some physical contact by just touching her arm to emphasise a point which she backs away from and calls me out on it!

Apr 3, 2018 12:06:02 GMT tinman said:

She's like ''Whooaa!!'' (as if to say ''Who said you could touch me!?'') and backs away from me a few inches.
I don't overreact and I mimick her in a jokey way and also say ''Whooaa!! hashtag 'metoo'! 'A guy touched my elbow!'''' which makes her laugh. We carry on talking for another minute or 2. All illogical chat about kareoke and alchohol or something. Her friends are all at the bar now and she wants to join them and she ejects. I was never that into her so don't care.

Good reaction.

Apr 3, 2018 12:06:02 GMT tinman said:

Next set. This was one of the frustrating ones! I walk into a new bar and as soon as I set foot in the bar, I kind of do some silly dance . As if the music took my body over the second I entered the bar.
Immediately I see a girl look at me and crack up laughing and kind of clap and she's basically calling me over with her body language and eye contact. I walk over too her smiling and say ''I saw you laughing at me! You're mean!! I hate you''. She says 'Nooo!!!! I loved your entrance!! I've been sitting her for an hour and you made the best entrance i've seen all night!!''.
We start chatting and I can sense attraction instantly. Very rare for me. She's 29 and she's pretty, although I tend to only go for much younger girls, but she's still hot.She's like a 7. After a while her friends want to move too a different room in the bar and she tells me to come with her. I tell her I'll join her in a bit as i'm getting some beers with my mates.
About 15 minutes later I go into the different room and she's there near the entraane and straight away signals me over alomostm like she's been waiting for me. Seems super keen. Flirty eye contact. We are talking again and at some point she asks me if I like her and also asks me if I'm single. She's clearly attracted, no!!? I'm being silly, but I show some intent back with lots of eye contact and some light touching.
This is where I WISH I had a friggin microphone on me (not the for the first time that night if you read on!) because I don't remember how it happened, but that is basically where that interaction ended!

I know how it happened. You pussied out. Girl basically handed you a huge green light. She asked both if you liked her and if you were single. That's the time to display a lot of intent, not "some" intent. As in, look into her eyes, say "let me show you", and pull her in close.

Apr 3, 2018 12:06:02 GMT tinman said:

I can't remember if she got dragged off to dance or If I ran out of things to say, or something else! I was obviously a bit drunk. Not drunk in terms of slurring and being stupid, but drunk in terms of memory loss the following morning!! If I had to guess what happened, I think she got pulled away by one of her friends, and I decided to 'play it cool' and let her come back to me which never happened!! lol Just feels weird in hindsight. She seemed as into me as any of the other girls i've slept with this year! I can't work out HOW, if she was so into me like she appeared to be, I lost how so easily!! Seems odd to me.
So she's gone now, but within about 2 minutes, the hottest girl of the night strikes up a conversation with me and tells me that I look like the singer in a band she likes. This one is like 18 years old and close to exactly what I like!! She's like an 8.5

There's a time to speak, and then there's a time to shut the fuck up and use your mouth in different ways.

Apr 3, 2018 12:06:02 GMT tinman said:

I pretend to know the band and soon we are kind of vibing. This one was weird because, AGAIN I somehow let her slip away, and even though I don't remember exactly how it happened, i THINK what happened was that I have this weird thing where if a girl shows interest in me first (especially a hot one), I tend to act very ALOOF! And even though mysterymethod is all about doing that and advises that, I find that when I do it, all that happens is that the girls dissappear! So i'm pretty sure she opened me, we chatted a little, and I simply didn't abide by the 90/10 rule (probably partly because of not knowing what to say but in this case, I think it was because of some internal block I have when it comes to talking to HOT girls who seem to show interest in me before I show it in them!!)

Maybe that's because mystery method sucks. Just maybe.


Anyway, I see with you the same issue I see with a lot of guys. Huge emphasis on talking, minimal emphasis on being physical. You've clearly been given some serious green lights, and you just failed to, well, stop talking and start doing, basically.

[R.C]

Apr 4, 2018 10:01:56 GMT tinman said:

Probably. I'm just not sure how to NOT be that way. Isn't it just natural? Can someone really NOT care at all about whether they are well received or not by some stunning girl who they truly desire?

Strong words, trivial context. A hot girl will appeal to most men, but that's really no ground to label her as stunning. Not to mention true desire.
Not being that way is something that comes with experience and awareness. You, realistically speaking, do not know this woman. There is no reason to be invested.

Apr 4, 2018 10:01:56 GMT tinman said:

And 'feeling good in yourself' as a way to not be outcome dependant? - Can you really 'feel good' if you none of the girls you like ever want you back? Even if you have lots of hobbies and earn a footballers wage, if girls don't react well to you, doesn't it become a kind of self fulfilling prophecy?

Thing is, guys will tend to use women as a crutch for their happiness. They will have shit careers or shit situations with school/college, their social lives will be a mess so they'll end up seeking refuge with their love life and have that compensate for everything. Which ends badly, every single time.

Having a footballers wage means being a footballer. Playing for a high end club is a testament to your skill. Being very good at what you do, unsurprisingly enough, is an inner source of confidence. If those aspects are in check, then ofcourse you'll be more in control and outcome independent. Your mood, happiness or overall well being doesn't rest on the validation you'd get from women. That in turn will make you less invested, and more appealing.

That's just expanding on your example, but on a large scale it's a good principle. We all draw from what makes us who we are. That's why "be yourself" is genuinely good advice, but if a person needs to be hearing it, then they clearly don't know who that is. So it's genuinely good, but also terribly bad advice at the same time.

It's also why, in my opinion, mystery method is shit. Because it takes into account absolutely nothing in regard to your lifestyle and tries to artificially patch and mend gigantic underlying issues as if they have no influence on your ability to attract women.

Apr 4, 2018 10:01:56 GMT tinman said:

I do feel a little bit stuck if i'm honest, though!

I am pretty certain that my 'game' has improved a fair bit, but it only comes into play on the rare instance that i'm able to reach the 'hook point' where they are contributing and don't seemingly want me to go away, which is rare. Usually i'm more or less shot down at the open (or if not outright shot down, she just barely talks or looks at me like i'm an alien, and then I bail lol)

But for example, i'm now much better at pulling girls who I already know, compared to before I discovered 'game'

Good to see you making progress. But your issue isn't reaching the hook point as much as it is realizing you already have.