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Post by TheWhiteTiger on Apr 1, 2022 20:28:05 GMT
So what should I work on for building attraction? or where should I look for tips? IMO, this is you having to figure out how you communicate with people so you can make it natural. It's like the cocky/funny stuff. How can I advise you to be cocky/funny if you aren't really cocky or funny. It won't come off as natural and inevitably repel women because they'll sense that it's phony. The advice that I really think you can benefit from is learn to approach women in real life and step away from online for bit. This will force you to interact with women without skipping steps. If you get rejected by a woman, you'll learn how to adjust what works for you and what doesn't. Go to places where approaching can be a bit warmer (i.e. meetup groups) so you can have more value and possibly less competition if you don't feel comfortable talking to random women on the street or in a bar/club. Like I said above, online is skipping steps. A date online is generally one of two things. It's her verifying that you are really who you presented or she's already made her decision about you. If you aren't the latter, you are operating from behind on a date. If you meet women in person, you can generally assume that the date is taking place because she is actually attracted to what you have demonstrated to her face-to-face. Building attraction will be a lot easier because she is going to be naturally working with you at building on the attraction that already exists. "Natural" is what I've had for a long time now, even pre-covid, and my "natural" sucks. Are there any pointers I should look into while I figure out a better "natural" approach?
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Post by JackZero on Apr 1, 2022 21:12:00 GMT
IMO, this is you having to figure out how you communicate with people so you can make it natural. It's like the cocky/funny stuff. How can I advise you to be cocky/funny if you aren't really cocky or funny. It won't come off as natural and inevitably repel women because they'll sense that it's phony. The advice that I really think you can benefit from is learn to approach women in real life and step away from online for bit. This will force you to interact with women without skipping steps. If you get rejected by a woman, you'll learn how to adjust what works for you and what doesn't. Go to places where approaching can be a bit warmer (i.e. meetup groups) so you can have more value and possibly less competition if you don't feel comfortable talking to random women on the street or in a bar/club. Like I said above, online is skipping steps. A date online is generally one of two things. It's her verifying that you are really who you presented or she's already made her decision about you. If you aren't the latter, you are operating from behind on a date. If you meet women in person, you can generally assume that the date is taking place because she is actually attracted to what you have demonstrated to her face-to-face. Building attraction will be a lot easier because she is going to be naturally working with you at building on the attraction that already exists. "Natural" is what I've had for a long time now, even pre-covid, and my "natural" sucks. Are there any pointers I should look into while I figure out a better "natural" approach? I don't know what your "natural" is but I'm willing to bet you that you can tweak it and have better results than you ever could by finding pointers based on someone else's experience. This is why I asked you originally what you did to build the connection. Your answer was basically, "not much". You use the answer that your "natural" sucks. What is it about you that makes your natural suck? Do you even know why your natural sucks? This stuff can't be fully scripted, so you will constantly get stuck if you are depending on pointers without addressing the deficits that you have. I understand that you want to get the girl right now and address the problems later, but that's not really how this works. You'll end up trying the pointer over and over again until you get the girl. The problem is that you more than likely would have gotten that girl without the pointer that was given. Then you'll have to start over again with the same bad habits that you already had when it is time to move on from that girl. BTW...when I was talking about "natural", I was speaking of being genuine. Would you also agree that you suck at being genuine?
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Post by TheWhiteTiger on Apr 1, 2022 21:42:45 GMT
BTW...when I was talking about "natural", I was speaking of being genuine. Would you also agree that you suck at being genuine? I don't think so What I meant was that my unscripted approaches don't go particularly well, at least in terms of getting the women that I want. When I talked about pointers I didn't just mean scripts, but yes I meant other experiences of what works for eliciting attraction.
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Post by pilgrimmeister on Apr 1, 2022 22:16:20 GMT
BTW...when I was talking about "natural", I was speaking of being genuine. Would you also agree that you suck at being genuine? I don't think so What I meant was that my unscripted approaches don't go particularly well, at least in terms of getting the women that I want. When I talked about pointers I didn't just mean scripts, but yes I meant other experiences of what works for eliciting attraction. Put it another way, forget about looks for a moment. What attractive qualities do you think you have, and what unattractive traits do you think you have? If you are not happy with yourself, with where you are in life, knowing what your unattractive qualities are, then you need to tackle them head on and put them right over time. But you should also capitalise on your attractive qualities. If you give off that vibe that you are not good enough, or act in a way where you are not true to yourself, girls will pick up on it. Even if you get past a 1st date, they will certainly find out by the second date. I spent years being single, with the odd fling here and there, for a number of years, as I found out the hard way that I needed to work on the unattractive qualities that I had. I had to learn to be happy with who and what I am and build the mentality that my life is good without a woman, that I don't need a woman in my life. Once I got into that mindset, the success rate started to rise, but at the same time, I set higher standards, and become more pickier. The other day I was talking to a girl, I asked her a few questions, she answered them and asked a few in return. Her answers didn't tick the boxes for me, so I wished her luck and sent her on her way. A few years ago, I would of kept pushing and would adjust myself to her standards and not stick to my own, and would let it affect me when the rejection happened. Now, it's not a big deal, I know who I am, if someone wants me, they have to be right for me. If they don't want me, then it wouldn't work anyway. I am not good looking, have a bit of a double chin but in fair shape and still go to the gym, but how I conduct myself, my beliefs, how I dress, present myself, positive body language and my chill attitude and ability to tell stories and make a girl laugh are the good bits, so I capiltalize on them. I bring out my current and long term goals and own them. I no longer worry about what a girl thinks, if she likes me or not. I don't analyse my interactions and doubt myself, I just say what I think and act how I chose to act, and whatever happens, happens, but I have owned those interactions and I show girls that I date a true "highlighted" best version of myself, and not someone that I am not. i also will not go chasing for validation either, and I rarely compliment a girl unless she has done something to deserve it. But that is me and I own it, it won't work for everyone. Answer the top questions, and we maybe able to point you in the right direction. What I am not willing to do it just give you quick fixes that won't work long term.
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Post by JackZero on Apr 1, 2022 22:17:53 GMT
BTW...when I was talking about "natural", I was speaking of being genuine. Would you also agree that you suck at being genuine? I don't think so What I meant was that my unscripted approaches don't go particularly well, at least in terms of getting the women that I want.When I talked about pointers I didn't just mean scripts, but yes I meant other experiences of what works for eliciting attraction. So you are saying that you don't have a problem getting girls that you aren't too interested in?
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Post by TheWhiteTiger on Apr 1, 2022 22:25:09 GMT
I don't think so What I meant was that my unscripted approaches don't go particularly well, at least in terms of getting the women that I want.When I talked about pointers I didn't just mean scripts, but yes I meant other experiences of what works for eliciting attraction. So you are saying that you don't have a problem getting girls that you aren't too interested in? What I suspect is happening is I don't have a problem getting girls who are also getting very little attention overall
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Post by JackZero on Apr 1, 2022 22:38:09 GMT
So you are saying that you don't have a problem getting girls that you aren't too interested in? What I suspect is happening is I don't have a problem getting girls who are also getting very little attention overall Couldn't it also be that you feel like you have nothing to lose when speaking to them?
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Post by TheWhiteTiger on Apr 2, 2022 17:12:56 GMT
What I suspect is happening is I don't have a problem getting girls who are also getting very little attention overall Couldn't it also be that you feel like you have nothing to lose when speaking to them? Could be, but I'd have no way of recreating that feeling.
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Post by JackZero on Apr 2, 2022 17:54:13 GMT
Couldn't it also be that you feel like you have nothing to lose when speaking to them? Could be, but I'd have no way of recreating that feeling. What I am getting from you is that you have an internal belief system that leads you to what you would consider failures. The problem is that you are looking for external ways of fixing that problem to avoid addressing what would really keep you from success. Your belief system is telling you that you aren't good enough. You don't want put yourself in a vulnerable position that would increase the likelihood of getting the girl in order to avoid feeling the rejection if you don't get the girl. That's nothing to feel shame about because rejection can be hard until you develop a thick skin. Then you'll probably ask how to develop that thick skin. Again, it's your belief system that will allow that development. You understanding that not getting the girl while being your genuine self is no big deal because there is another one that actually will want you. Once you realize that is when you will start seeing women putting effort into you seeing them as being worthy of your company because you aren't acting like she is more valuable than you are. I am really hoping that you can put into words why you say that your natural game sucks. EDIT: I hope you realize that I'm not trying to criticize you here. I just don't want you to give up because some pointer led you down the wrong path and then you decide to settle for one of those girls that you don't really want.
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Post by TheWhiteTiger on Apr 2, 2022 19:00:05 GMT
Could be, but I'd have no way of recreating that feeling. I am really hoping that you can put into words why you say that your natural game sucks. I'm not clear on what you mean. I just find that the conversation naturally goes to serious boring topics for me if I just wing it, and the consistent feedback I'm getting in one way or another is that girls don't feel like it was romantic one girl sent me back: "You were really nice. Just that I felt like I was having a good time with a guy friend, not a date"
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Post by pilgrimmeister on Apr 2, 2022 19:26:51 GMT
I am really hoping that you can put into words why you say that your natural game sucks. I'm not clear on what you mean. I just find that the conversation naturally goes to serious boring topics for me if I just wing it, and the consistent feedback I'm getting in one way or another is that girls don't feel like it was romantic one girl sent me back: "You were really nice. Just that I felt like I was having a good time with a guy friend, not a date" "You were really nice. Just that I felt like I was having a good time with a guy friend, not a date" = You didn't show your intentions, by teasing her. I told a story today about why me and wooden bed frames do not mix. I went into detail about how me and the girl I was with where we both jumped together, while she was mounted on me and then the bed gave way, and how we managed to prop it up and carry on. It put that thought in her head of "I wonder if he would throw me around like that in the bedroom" . She knows the intent straight away and its a funny story if told right.
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Post by JackZero on Apr 2, 2022 19:52:48 GMT
I am really hoping that you can put into words why you say that your natural game sucks. I'm not clear on what you mean. I just find that the conversation naturally goes to serious boring topics for me if I just wing it, and the consistent feedback I'm getting in one way or another is that girls don't feel like it was romantic one girl sent me back: "You were really nice. Just that I felt like I was having a good time with a guy friend, not a date" This is good information. If I'm assuming correctly that this statement came from a girl that you met online and I am going to double down on this being a problem with you skipping steps. When you meet a woman in person, there is at least an implied "I like you" to her when you ask her out on a date. Her agreeing to that date is usually an implication of her saying "I like you too." When you meet online, those implications aren't necessarily there and if you don't express to her at some point that you are actually attracted to her then she's going to view you as a friend. Understand that when you say the conversation naturally goes to serious boring topics for you and it didn't feel like a date are both the same thing. You aren't expressing attraction. If you aren't expressing attraction, she has no reason to feel excited about you. This is what we really need to address, IMO. If the conversation is boring for her then you need to let her talk about herself. Girls litter conversations with stuff that they want you to be impressed with, things that you can have playful fun at her expense, and things that you can add value to. Those conversations are simple to get them to. I'm going to give you a quick exercise here. What are things that goes on in a woman's life that are appropriate topics for a first date with a woman that you've never met?
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Post by TheWhiteTiger on Apr 2, 2022 23:47:02 GMT
This is good information. If I'm assuming correctly that this statement came from a girl that you met online and I am going to double down on this being a problem with you skipping steps. When you meet a woman in person, there is at least an implied "I like you" to her when you ask her out on a date. Her agreeing to that date is usually an implication of her saying "I like you too." When you meet online, those implications aren't necessarily there and if you don't express to her at some point that you are actually attracted to her then she's going to view you as a friend. It very much blindsided me because as we were walking she seemed very comfortable walking arm in arm with me. I get there may have not been much flirting happening, but I assume at the very least that expresses attraction I'm going to give you a quick exercise here. What are things that goes on in a woman's life that are appropriate topics for a first date with a woman that you've never met? I'll think about this one
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Post by JackZero on Apr 3, 2022 1:22:06 GMT
I believe we are making progress here, believe it or not. She is comfortable walking arm and arm with you. At this point you are saying that there is not much flirting happening. I'm assuming that there isn't anymore physical escalation beyond this as well. When did she turn you down for the second date? Was it when you asked at any point on this date or was it at a point after the date? I ask these questions because if it happened during the date, then you may have been doing everything ok and this was just a girl that wasn't interested. There's no shame in that. If it happened after the date then it is likely she may have cooled off. There are lots of reasons a woman can cool off after a first date. However, they all boil down to her not walking away feeling any type of enthusiasm. Sure, she may have locked arms but she may have done that as a "go with the flow" type of mentality. More and more that you let us know, the more I'm seeing that you don't need help with the technical stuff. It's the little things in between that you are missing. To be honest, I can't figure out what you are hoping to achieve with your dates. It's almost like you don't know how you want them to end.
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Post by TheWhiteTiger on Apr 3, 2022 6:19:33 GMT
To be honest, I can't figure out what you are hoping to achieve with your dates. It's almost like you don't know how you want them to end. What do you mean? At the moment I want them to lead to a second date
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