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Post by TheWhiteTiger on Mar 30, 2022 4:22:20 GMT
So I matched with a cute girl from Bumble a few days ago and we got chatting. Sadly she unmatched me (spoiler alert), so I don't have access to the chat anymore to post, but it felt like the match was good. We made plans to meet up and drive to get bubble tea. So I show up to pick her up at a coffee shop we said we'd meet at, and when I go in for a hug she is very hesitant but I shake it off and tell her we should go. We get into my car and drive. The ride would take some time, so instead of a usual "How are you/How was your day?", I wanted to lead with something interesting. I told her I'd like her opinion about a scenario where my friend went out with a girl, but isn't interested in her, and now she won't leave him alone, asking for her advice on how he should proceed. My hope with that was twofold; one, for it to be a DHV in the form of "I have a friend who is popular with women" (birds of a feather flock together kinda deal), and two, was hoping to get in a few jokes "I only know it from my experience of having to tone gals down". However, delivery on my end was lame and so maybe it didn't land so well. As we got to the bubble tea place we get out of the car, and I told her to take my hand so we walk arm in arm, and she complied. So we walk over to the place like that. In retrospect maybe I should have taken her for coffee or something like that. Not to get too nerdy, but some studies show that holding a hot drink vs a cold drink has an effect on someone's impression of you, also it was a mildly chilly day. Back to the date, we grab our drinks and I propose we head over to the local park. I have a sleeping bag in my car we could use as a picnic blanket. My rationale was to try and create some time bridges, but given we spent minimal time at the bubble tea place, I don't think that worked out as intended. We ended up going to the park and finding a spot there, all the time we're holding hands but I notice her hold isn't as tight, so maybe that made me seem too needy there. We talked for a bit getting to know each other and I decided to try Style's Eliciting Values Routine, but again delivery was crap so that didn't land very well. After our short picnic with our drinks, I suggested we visit the nearby university because they have cool star maps. That said, the star maps only look cool at night when lit up, and you can match them with the actual stars. Given the current chilly and cloudy weather, that may have been a waste of time, since after the maps we mostly walked around and talked, I gave her a short tour of my campus (it was my Alma Mater). I think my main mistakes there were poor planning, poor delivery of the canned material I had, and possibly spending TOO MUCH time together. There were some high notes on that date, and perhaps I should have ended with them instead of letting things drag on and on and on. Some things I need to work on: * Have some canned material ready. If it works, no reason to wing it. * Be more strategic with time * Ideally go for hot drink dates if it's not alcoholic, I'll try and even get a few coffee shops where I can establish myself as a regular for some DHV
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Post by pilgrimmeister on Mar 30, 2022 8:45:35 GMT
You were acting creepy around her. Don't used canned material on a date, be original and authentic. Make your life interesting so you have actual DHVs to tell. For online, treat fist dates as initial encounters and comfort build. 2nd dates are where you can progress.
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Post by curtis72 on Mar 30, 2022 11:02:19 GMT
You were acting creepy around her. Don't used canned material on a date, be original and authentic. Make your life interesting so you have actual DHVs to tell. For online, treat fist dates as initial encounters and comfort build. 2nd dates are where you can progress. I agree with not using canned material, but with regards to having interesting stories to tell - I think people should prepare how they tell 5-10 personal anecdotes/interesting stories about themselves to tell on a date. Often on dates, myself and maybe some other guys can have mind blanks so having stories and anecdotes we can pull up is pretty useful. I think wrt OP, Style can use his questions well because these are questions that Neil Strauss thinks so Neil Strauss can deliver and be authentic. If you are the second coming of him then sure, but if you want to have some kind of question list - it’s best for you to think of what appeals to you. I am a bit iffy on The Game in general. It’s the sort of thing that would be an interesting MTV show in the 2000s but it just reads as fiction
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Post by pilgrimmeister on Mar 30, 2022 11:41:34 GMT
Yeah, most the stories I tell are real life stories that affected me, and they stick out in my mind, so easy to do, but maybe not so easy for those with less life experience. I also craft them so that they have an element to mystery to them. Like telling a girl about that myself and wooden bed frames are not a good mix, and that I will tell her the rest on the weekend, which has got her thinking of all possible scenarios, and some indeed how I conduct myself in the bedroom.
To the OP, when doing initial meets from online, treat it as just that. She isn't going to be comfortable with you just off the bat. Tinder aside, most girls on dating sites are after long term and will have their barriers up. So going in with a hug straight off may seem a bit creepy, as you are still strangers. Build up the comfort and hug after the date is fine, or more if the chemistry is right. I prefer to let things flow on the date, periods of silence are fine. If you get passed the first date, then on the second date, you can edge up the kino bit by bit. If you are too keen on the first meet, then it implies you are desperate. This applies to online dating only. Now if you met her via an in field approach, you would already have met her and calibrated to her vibe, so the first date in that instance is different, as the barriers will be lowered and going in with a hug or even a kiss (if you have got to that stage on the initial meet) would be more appropiate.
A first meet should be chill, light and fun. Also, don't hype things up before the date to pretend that you are something that you are not. Once you are on a date and meet, if you don't turn out to be what you said you were, then yeah, its going to be a hard rejection. I also have a lot of female friends who are dating others, they all say this that guys hype it up online, but when it comes down to meeting them, they are the total opposite, and in the process, the decent guys who are competing online who are being true to themselves and a better fit for them, miss out, and by the time the girls get back to them, they are then spoken for and vanished.
Do you want these girls as just FWBs or a relationship. You need to be clear with your intentions, no point dating someone looking solely for LTR if that is not what you want, as its a lot of effort just to get her into bed. If its FWBs you are after, then just target those as expectations will be clear. Yes it limits the dating pool, but that is how it is.
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Post by JackZero on Mar 30, 2022 15:26:25 GMT
I want to know the high points about this date that isn't mentioned anywhere. What did you do to build attraction between you and her? Routines, location, and most of the stuff you talked about is pretty much secondary when it comes to seduction. I like the fact that you did the hand holding, but it doesn't seem like you used it to intensify the connection between the two of you.
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Post by curtis72 on Mar 30, 2022 19:09:22 GMT
You were acting creepy around her. Don't used canned material on a date, be original and authentic. Make your life interesting so you have actual DHVs to tell. For online, treat fist dates as initial encounters and comfort build. 2nd dates are where you can progress. Also, unless the second sentence is what you consider him being creepy, I think you should elaborate on where you think he is being creepy.
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Post by TheWhiteTiger on Mar 30, 2022 21:07:46 GMT
I want to know the high points about this date that isn't mentioned anywhere. What did you do to build attraction between you and her? Routines, location, and most of the stuff you talked about is pretty much secondary when it comes to seduction. I like the fact that you did the hand holding, but it doesn't seem like you used it to intensify the connection between the two of you. What could I have done in terms of attraction building?
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Post by JackZero on Mar 30, 2022 22:29:11 GMT
I want to know the high points about this date that isn't mentioned anywhere. What did you do to build attraction between you and her? Routines, location, and most of the stuff you talked about is pretty much secondary when it comes to seduction. I like the fact that you did the hand holding, but it doesn't seem like you used it to intensify the connection between the two of you. What could I have done in terms of attraction building? You're not answering the question that I presented to you. What did you do to build attraction between you and her? IMO, this is an important question for you to be able to answer. I believe you need to know what you want to do so that you can master why you are doing the things that you do. I'd be willing to bet that if you are able to answer that question, you'll start seeing why your canned stuff fell flat.
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Post by pilgrimmeister on Mar 30, 2022 22:35:59 GMT
You were acting creepy around her. Don't used canned material on a date, be original and authentic. Make your life interesting so you have actual DHVs to tell. For online, treat fist dates as initial encounters and comfort build. 2nd dates are where you can progress. Also, unless the second sentence is what you consider him being creepy, I think you should elaborate on where you think he is being creepy. Being creepy meaning going straight for the hug from the off (as its a first encounter), then hand holding when she wasn't comfortable with it. It's better to work up to that more slowly after some comfort building, to create a vibe where she wants to be hugged and have her hand held and feels positive about it. Yes you have to lead, but they have to be receptive to it and not seem like it was forced.
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Post by TheWhiteTiger on Mar 31, 2022 4:07:18 GMT
What could I have done in terms of attraction building? You're not answering the question that I presented to you. What did you do to build attraction between you and her? IMO, this is an important question for you to be able to answer. I believe you need to know what you want to do so that you can master why you are doing the things that you do. I'd be willing to bet that if you are able to answer that question, you'll start seeing why your canned stuff fell flat. I Should have been more specific, I can't think of anything I was doing to try and build attraction with her. I tried going for basic kino starting at high fives, moving on to arm-in-arm walking. Then there was the DHV story I tried to do, but aside from that I got nada. That's why I asked
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Post by pilgrimmeister on Mar 31, 2022 10:45:32 GMT
You're not answering the question that I presented to you. What did you do to build attraction between you and her? IMO, this is an important question for you to be able to answer. I believe you need to know what you want to do so that you can master why you are doing the things that you do. I'd be willing to bet that if you are able to answer that question, you'll start seeing why your canned stuff fell flat. I Should have been more specific, I can't think of anything I was doing to try and build attraction with her. I tried going for basic kino starting at high fives, moving on to arm-in-arm walking. Then there was the DHV story I tried to do, but aside from that I got nada. That's why I asked If you tried those things, and wasn't getting anything back from her, then take a step back from the kino. From the point you gave the hive fives, how long as it before you went to arm-in-arm. Ususally I do that a bit further down the escalation ladder when it is clear there is an emotional bond. Before that, you do light hand touching as part of an intercation, then pull back again. I do this until they return or suggest to me they want me to touch their hands via social cue's. Then I step it up a little more by hand holding, again pulling back every so often. Sometimes you need to back off completely. A few weeks back now I did a bit of light kino with a girl, saw that she was not comfortable, so pulled back. I attempted it when I saw her again, still uncomfortale, so at that point I let her go and stopped persuing, as she clearly wasn't attracted. This was despite before that the things she was doing around me suggested she was interested such has hugs and she even kissed me on the cheek a few times, so I tested the waters and got the asnwer. It turned out in the end she just wants orbiters for validation. However, we still have respect for eachother, she knows full well I am talking and dating otehr women, I am just complely hands off with her and keep it completly platonic, but I don't give her any validation. She has also since told me she thrives on having admirers but now no longer gives me those signals as she knows I will not become one of them. I have another girl who I see who is very hands on, and I even sleep with her, no holds barrerd, becuase over time I used the escalation ladder effectively as above, trying, pulling back, trying again, compiance, next level etc, until she was taking my pants off. There is no prospect of a relationship however for other reasons. She also knows I am seeing other women and knows the score. Another one I am in the initial stages with, I only did a bit light kino after the first meet, which was reciportated. We are now meeting again, where I can then edge it up a notch. This one wants an LTR and is girlfriend material from what I know of her so far, so a slower calibrated approach is required. There is another one I spoken to online as well, but she wants to talk for a couple months to build a connection before a meet. I wished her well, not my cup of tea to be texting for weeks on end, when there are other options which require less invesemtnet before a meet. All in all, every girl is different. Some will calibrate with you right away, to the point you can achieve a SDL. Others will take a lot longer (weeks or even months in some cases). The pace of kino is not same for every girl. Read the signals and act accordingly. If they are not receptive early on in the process or takes too long to be worthwhile the investment, let her go and go cold on her. She will reach out if she is still interested but if they were standoffish before, I will let them lead on any kino. But then you can put the time in on other women or improving yourself to become more attractive and interesting. Do you have trouble reading a girl and picking up hints they give out?
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Post by curtis72 on Mar 31, 2022 14:50:55 GMT
Also, unless the second sentence is what you consider him being creepy, I think you should elaborate on where you think he is being creepy. Being creepy meaning going straight for the hug from the off (as its a first encounter), then hand holding when she wasn't comfortable with it. It's better to work up to that more slowly after some comfort building, to create a vibe where she wants to be hugged and have her hand held and feels positive about it. Yes you have to lead, but they have to be receptive to it and not seem like it was forced. Gonna have to hard disagree about a hug being creepy as in my experience, most of the times girls have led for them themselves.
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Post by JackZero on Mar 31, 2022 17:10:26 GMT
You're not answering the question that I presented to you. What did you do to build attraction between you and her? IMO, this is an important question for you to be able to answer. I believe you need to know what you want to do so that you can master why you are doing the things that you do. I'd be willing to bet that if you are able to answer that question, you'll start seeing why your canned stuff fell flat. I Should have been more specific, I can't think of anything I was doing to try and build attraction with her. I tried going for basic kino starting at high fives, moving on to arm-in-arm walking. Then there was the DHV story I tried to do, but aside from that I got nada. That's why I asked I kind of understood that you were working at it from a technical point of view and what you say here just confirms it. IMO, for the most guys, the technical stuff is only good when you are connecting with her at an emotional level. Kino is technical. High fives are technical. Hand holding and walking arm-in-arm is technical. These DHV stories are all technical. This is where PUA gets guys in trouble. If you aren't actively working to get a girl at an emotional/mental level, with certain environments being an exception, most of that stuff will come off as creepy or try hard. However, most PUA material is designed in such a way that avoids connecting at an emotional level. One of the first things I said to the last girl I met online was, "I knew I had good taste in women.' She laughed, but at the same time it was establishing that I found her attractive. While I find using other people's material kind of cringy, I do have certain patterns of conversation that I like to work with. I like to get women talking about their dreams and goals because those are things that are emotional and personal to them. If you are able to appreciate her dreams and goals, she's going to feel closer to you. If you are able to relate and even offer some value to that conversation that's even better for you. Lastly, I make sure that I am flirting on a date.
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Post by TheWhiteTiger on Apr 1, 2022 4:12:43 GMT
So what should I work on for building attraction? or where should I look for tips?
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Post by JackZero on Apr 1, 2022 17:01:44 GMT
So what should I work on for building attraction? or where should I look for tips? IMO, this is you having to figure out how you communicate with people so you can make it natural. It's like the cocky/funny stuff. How can I advise you to be cocky/funny if you aren't really cocky or funny. It won't come off as natural and inevitably repel women because they'll sense that it's phony. The advice that I really think you can benefit from is learn to approach women in real life and step away from online for bit. This will force you to interact with women without skipping steps. If you get rejected by a woman, you'll learn how to adjust what works for you and what doesn't. Go to places where approaching can be a bit warmer (i.e. meetup groups) so you can have more value and possibly less competition if you don't feel comfortable talking to random women on the street or in a bar/club. Like I said above, online is skipping steps. A date online is generally one of two things. It's her verifying that you are really who you presented or she's already made her decision about you. If you aren't the latter, you are operating from behind on a date. If you meet women in person, you can generally assume that the date is taking place because she is actually attracted to what you have demonstrated to her face-to-face. Building attraction will be a lot easier because she is going to be naturally working with you at building on the attraction that already exists.
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