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Post by flyingbanana on Mar 9, 2021 7:21:11 GMT
Honest mindset: now I’m thinking I’ll never do better than her. By her flipping it it triggered a afc response. She has 100 percent power. That’s how quick it happens. Am I missing something? This is probably funny to some but truth is this can happen very fast.
Anyway got the LJBF text lol. But there’s more to unpack with it tomorrow. That said, sucks and they don’t care about hurting you once they get that confidence you helped them build. Knowing the above, I built the confidence and said “No, I have lots of friends. See you later. (If you ever want to be an adult and try to have a relationship, you know where to call me).” Ironic but also establishes you are willing to walk away.
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Post by pilgrimmeister on Mar 9, 2021 10:03:13 GMT
You are in the friendzone and she has another guy. You need to learn to move on, cut all emotions aside. If you are spinning plates then you cannot get emotionally involved with girls. If you are exclusive, then you can. The minute you get emotionally involved but haven't pulled the trigger, it's time to end it and not sticking around for convenience of sex on tap. Doesn't work like that. You have to present yourself as non emotional, but that's not you.
Remember when we talked about regularly dropping girls off rotation to stop feelings getting in the way. Even if it means going dry. You persisted with writer girl for too long, as there were limited other options.
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Post by pilgrimmeister on Mar 9, 2021 12:41:34 GMT
I will write up am entire topic soon on Broken women and why to avoid them. I have had lots of personal experience with girls with "problems", such as abusive exes, mental issues, bad past experiences, insecurity, even living on the social with nothing to show for success but ability to open their legs and give birth to kids, paid for by the state or mug of a man who swoops in and plays daddy.
There are certain behaviours which are big red flags. If you help these women become more confident and emotionally help them, they then realise you are too useful as a friend who will always come running when they call, so it's better to friendzone and sleep with guys who aren't emotionally involved and will take them as they are and tell them what they want to hear, and not hard truths. She has now realised that with confidence that she has risen above your league, and knows its time to branch off and upgrade to a guy who will make her feel special.
If you do get involved with these types again, do not help them out of the gutter, accept them for what they are "a fuck" and treat them as such don't get emotionally attached or don't even bother if you value your sanity. If you help them get better, it just tells them that if he accepted me when I was low, I can do so much better when I am on a high.
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Post by flyingbanana on Mar 9, 2021 19:01:32 GMT
Thanks guys - yeah, it is now a pattern I have realized. With the ones like this, I am good at getting attraction and banging, but as soon as I start acting like the guy they say they want, they lose the attraction. I am glad I regained my composure and did not let her try to use me as an emotional punching bag/support friend. Anyway tried to salvage a fwb thing before I sent the not looking for friends text. This text shows the "change" from her: "We're not having sex FlyingB. I'd just like to stay friends I think it's super weird not having you in my life...I obvisouly still think about you. But that ring...whether it was bought for me or not, and "nice timing" (I had sent that with the stupid ring pic, a shortcoming as Jack pointed out) that pretty much told me I did the right thing. I'm just looking for something else-trying out different guys that may or may not work. Believe it or not I'm not planning on having sex with them. You spoiled me in that department. Our sex was not only legendary phsycially but you connected it to love. Showing me that was possible was your greatest gift to me. And you have SO much to offer a woman find a normal one for a little bit just have some fun be safe. " then she asked me some questions about some random stuff unrelated to some pics I sent her from when I was a kid. I ignored those and sent the I have enough friends text. Of course she still responded... "I will. I need to do some growing, learning and strengthen myself. I will always love you" I am starting to think there's something seriously wrong with her in the sense that she's talking like we haven't spoken in weeks when it had been a couple days. Also, she hasn't blocked me or moved on but I am not on the bench. Maybe something else is going on who knows. My shortcomings/lessons from the experience: JackZ is right. I "knee-jerked" and immediately tried getting back someone who probably was not right for me. I had her and when I had her, I didn't want her like that. I did the immature ring thing instead of just letting it end. This could of led me to be right back in a cycle of hurt and lowering my own value. The good news - some of my guy wings want to get together tonight, will hopefully take my mind off this. And lucky me, a new prospect connected with me online yesterday. She is what I would consider back in HB level (nice petite 25 year old blonde "model" type - her modeling profile online says 5'1, 100 lbs DDD). Talked a little and she called me actually, somewhat to my surprise. Anyway she gave me her name told me to look at her instagram and stuff like that, I said we can just see how we get along in real life. I said maybe go for a walk do whatever or I could come over around 11. To my surprise, she said just come over tonight. Mentioned hope not afraid of dogs lol and that she would be in her comfy sweats but cannot hang past 2 am. Then she followed up with what are you looking for type question and said wanted to make sure I am not just looking for a hookup. I said let see how it develops naturally but ideally looking for the woman of my dreams. Using the username she sent me for her instagram stuff I found her modeling profile and stuff (LOL also found her on a sugarbabies site from when she was like 21). She de-matched me on the dating app, and via text also said that app sucks but no mention about removing her and I's match (will keep an eye if this is some red flag). She is genuinely excited to meet me it seems, but I always like to stay a little guarded and not get too excited in case it falls through. But I am cautiously optimistic she might be a real good replacement. And who knows, one of them will eventually by a GF. But will report how it goes, if we even actually meet. haha never know. Eventually I will meet a normal one! Which leads to the question my ideal girl: - I think I'll know it when I see it, but reliable, sexual and happy to please, happy to see me whenever she does, mentally pretty good, a little obsessed with me but not crazily so, doesn't mentally abuse me or mess with my mind. Intelligent but not to the point of where it is overanalyzing everything. The negotiables: likes to pay sometimes, has shit together to a large degree, not prone to tantrums or scenes.
8.6.1
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Post by GFRESH2DEF on Mar 9, 2021 20:37:30 GMT
If you help these women become more confident and emotionally help them, they then realise you are too useful as a friend who will always come running when they call, so it's better to friendzone and sleep with guys who aren't emotionally involved and will take them as they are and tell them what they want to hear, and not hard truths. She has now realised that with confidence that she has risen above your league, and knows its time to branch off and upgrade to a guy who will make her feel special. If you do get involved with these types again, do not help them out of the gutter, accept them for what they are "a fuck" and treat them as such don't get emotionally attached or don't even bother if you value your sanity. If you help them get better, it just tells them that if he accepted me when I was low, I can do so much better when I am on a high. That is precisely what's going on here, as Pilgrimmeister pointed out. And it's the cold hard truth. But OP had the feeling that was probably happening too. I knew, that she had another guy already, once she told OP.. "I just need some space". Because whenever a woman tells you that she needs space..it typically means that she's already seeing another guy..the guy, that she wants to branch on to. She just needs some space (some time), to see if things will workout with the new prospect. If she all of a sudden comes back to you..then you know it's because, the new prospect didn't workout, for whatever reason. I also agree that he kept her in the rotation for far too long. Once they start wanting more from you (than only a FWB thing)..that's usually when it's over, and it's best to cut her loose. Because she will get tired of waiting for you to commit to her. So she will find some other guy, that she believes will. And if you start chasing her, because you're afraid that you're losing her (because you still think that you have her)..then yeah, you will lose the power in that dynamic. And then you will be at her mercy, emotionally. And Op, you should be good, whether the girl stays with you, or she leaves. If you're not..then that should highlight to you, that you have some things that you need to work on. Because you should never feel like you need a woman (or women), to feel whole. I believe that we've been trying to hammer that point to you, from the very beginning lol. If you felt confident when she was chasing you, and putting you up on a pedestal..but now you feel needy, because she's not chasing you anymore, nor is she putting you up on a pedestal anymore..that tells me that you need to adopt a more high value mindset, as a man. I know exactly where you are coming from..because i also used to do the same thing. And although you're not there yet..you now know what you need to work on, to become that. For me..it was knowing that a woman cannot ever fulfill me or improve me. Only i can do that for myself. No woman can do that for me (nor can she do that for any guy really). I can give you tons of reasons why they can't, but that would take forever (i've already told you about, some of those reasons). But i think that once you adopt this mindset..you will be there. And that's what i think you are missing OP, and why you are going through all of this stuff now. -G
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Post by curtis72 on Mar 11, 2021 13:10:23 GMT
Why should “broken” women be avoided? I’ve never had a LTR with one, but I am currently seeing a girl who was raped by the last guy she went out with on a first date and she initially had challenges and nerves dating me. In terms of “broken”, I was very surprised to hear how many women are on antidepressants or have crying episodes and stuff. So some probably manage to hide it better themselves. Additionally, I’ve never had any major mental health problems myself, but I know quite a lot of people that have.
Is broken not a fairly arbitrary term? A lot of people have emotional issues these days, is it not just a case of only offer a shoulder to cry on if you care about the person or are open to dealing with their issues?
Why would a woman leave you, because she was with you when she was in the dumps? Is that not more likely to build more loyalty?
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vagabond
MPUA Forum Newbie
Sup, I'm a university student researching-by-doing.
Posts: 18
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Post by vagabond on Mar 11, 2021 14:25:14 GMT
On the 'broken women' point, I think in terms of the PUA logic that you're mostly trying to come away with a utilitarian 'more pleasure than pain' experience (for yourself, and maybe for some for the other person as well and finding that balance) from rotations (or whatever term you want to categorize the people you get with), it is more likely that you will have to invest more emotionally with someone who needs more emotional support and that might not always translate to a 'pleasurable' experience. That doesn't always strictly translate to a 'worse' experience, but on average most people will not have the tools to be able to support someone who is 'broken' (I'm not really a fan of this term) and so may find it arduous or difficult to be able to relate to someone with those issues.
it is difficult social terrain to cross, that's for sure. Does that mean that 'we' (I'll speak for all of us) should avoid people with mental illness or who have acute emotional damage? I think that depends on your answer to the question 'What are you looking for?'. Do you always just want the easiest, most obviously pleasurable route ('we hooked up a few times and then called it quits upon even emotional grounds')? Or do you want more from your interactions? People with issues still have something to offer, we can learn something from anyone we interact with in social or sexual spheres. There may be new different pleasures to be found, but it is not always going to be the path of least resistance that we are 100% comfortable with or that we can use tactics to control for.
I think Pilgrim made his statement within a 'most pleasure, path of least resistance' model of PUA. If you want a simple and easy ride, yes, most of the time you may want to avoid those with mental illness or acute emotional damages. But if you aren't always in it for the predictable or easy route, there are less constraints, find your own way.
That's my view at least. But I think this topic is probably due its' own thread elsewhere as I think we'd be wondering off topic to continue down this route.
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Post by pilgrimmeister on Mar 11, 2021 15:15:44 GMT
Broken women is a general term for women who need a lot of emotional support, and therefore are often needy and require a lot of investment. Just sleeping with them fine, but its when you attempt to help them sort their lives out or respond to Crys for help is when the problems occur.
You have to remember these types are usually at a low point, so will be fairly easy to get with. However, once they have improved themselves, they become more self aware of their value, value your friendship in getting to where they are now, so will upgrade to a new guy, and keep you as a friend who can provide support without the risk of having nobody to turn to when it all goes wrong.
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Post by JackZero on Mar 11, 2021 21:48:16 GMT
I've always looked at broken women as the type that have an inability to be happy on their own and put the responsibility on someone else to provide them happiness. Some can be like Pilgrim pointed out as needing emotional support and then there are some that, for simplicities sake, are toxic and can't be fixed without professional help. Certain personalities of men, me included, are attracted to those types of women for various reasons. Sometimes it's a feeling of achievement just to be one of the few that can make them happy. Sometimes it's because it's because of a toxic parent and knowing how to deal with them. Some men are attracted to them because they know that those women are weak and are easy to manipulate. No matter what the reasoning is, those women will drag you down into their misery if you allow them to be in your lives.
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Post by flyingbanana on Mar 26, 2021 15:35:24 GMT
If you help these women become more confident and emotionally help them, they then realise you are too useful as a friend who will always come running when they call, so it's better to friendzone and sleep with guys who aren't emotionally involved and will take them as they are and tell them what they want to hear, and not hard truths. She has now realised that with confidence that she has risen above your league, and knows its time to branch off and upgrade to a guy who will make her feel special. If you do get involved with these types again, do not help them out of the gutter, accept them for what they are "a fuck" and treat them as such don't get emotionally attached or don't even bother if you value your sanity. If you help them get better, it just tells them that if he accepted me when I was low, I can do so much better when I am on a high. That is precisely what's going on here, as Pilgrimmeister pointed out. And it's the cold hard truth. But OP had the feeling that was probably happening too. I knew, that she had another guy already, once she told OP.. "I just need some space". Because whenever a woman tells you that she needs space..it typically means that she's already seeing another guy..the guy, that she wants to branch on to. She just needs some space (some time), to see if things will workout with the new prospect. If she all of a sudden comes back to you..then you know it's because, the new prospect didn't workout, for whatever reason. I also agree that he kept her in the rotation for far too long. Once they start wanting more from you (than only a FWB thing)..that's usually when it's over, and it's best to cut her loose. Because she will get tired of waiting for you to commit to her. So she will find some other guy, that she believes will. And if you start chasing her, because you're afraid that you're losing her (because you still think that you have her)..then yeah, you will lose the power in that dynamic. And then you will be at her mercy, emotionally. And Op, you should be good, whether the girl stays with you, or she leaves. If you're not..then that should highlight to you, that you have some things that you need to work on. Because you should never feel like you need a woman (or women), to feel whole. I believe that we've been trying to hammer that point to you, from the very beginning lol. If you felt confident when she was chasing you, and putting you up on a pedestal..but now you feel needy, because she's not chasing you anymore, nor is she putting you up on a pedestal anymore..that tells me that you need to adopt a more high value mindset, as a man. I know exactly where you are coming from..because i also used to do the same thing. And although you're not there yet..you now know what you need to work on, to become that. For me..it was knowing that a woman cannot ever fulfill me or improve me. Only i can do that for myself. No woman can do that for me (nor can she do that for any guy really). I can give you tons of reasons why they can't, but that would take forever (i've already told you about, some of those reasons). But i think that once you adopt this mindset..you will be there. And that's what i think you are missing OP, and why you are going through all of this stuff now. -G An update to this saga for everyone - In terms of writer girl, I think she thought I was bluffing when I said do not contact me until ready to talk like adults/relationship (I started to picture a relationship with her, guess it is like an addiction and I didn't want to lose my fix) - definitely not going to let her use me as some emotional punching bag and/or talk to me about what is going on in her life after ending things. That would just be setting me up to torture myself, so I stuck to my guns. So she texted me out of the blue, I had went about 2 weeks with zero contact, and she wrote me at like 2:30 am (I listened to you guys and cut off all contact with her and told her I had enough friends when she LJBF texted me) asking me "how are you doing?" I did not respond. Then she followed that up later saying, "Telling ur new girlfriend a bunch of crazy stories about me? lol" two texts from her in 10 hours after silence for a couple weeks. So, I finally responded with something "Lol realize I am the love of your life yet I can tell you in person if you apologize by giving me a nice kiss and looking me in the eyes and tell me how much you love me and have a nice candle light dinner with me (ordered from somewhere nice). Then we can actually discuss like adults in real life..." I also said my friend would be in town and would be nice for her to meet him (she had basically begged to meet my friends when she was seeing me). Guess the new guy must not be showing as much value, but for me I am demonstrating ability to walk away and high value and putting a price on myself; I made it clear I had no intention to be her friend. She responded "Uh No I was just asking." I responded that "it's was funny that I still have your card from a few weeks prior stating how much you are into me and how happy you are with me (she had given it to me for v-day). Lol but yeah don't contact me until ready to be an adult and talk in person and have nice night together. When you're ready to do that you can text/call me. I'm looking for a relationship not friends. Have enough friends." Now I could of been nice and lingered and been her emotional support, but from my perspective I only want her in my life if she's going to be a FWB/relationship - no way I want a reminder of the confidence I helped build for her that she is using with someone else. She obviously wanted me part of her life because she enjoys something about me even if we aren't seeing each other, but my rule will be that she cannot enjoy that after dumping me. So I stood by my words (notice she was the one that reached out to me after complete silence by me, and then thinking I am bluffing tried to have a conversation). She responded "You'll never hear from me again I promise" then apparently blocked my number, I sent a follow up text about she can reach out when wants to have a nice night and talk like adults... but it never went thru. Again, see I show that I have rules and I mean what I say. If she wants to have me in her life, it will be by my rules because I will not be happy otherwise. Why ruin my happiness and be stuck on whims of someone who does not treat me well? She ended it, she does not get to enjoy my friendship - that will just be a big tease/hurt my chances with other women, waste my time, etc. 8.7.1
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Post by curtis72 on Mar 26, 2021 19:54:33 GMT
Why respond to that?
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Post by flyingbanana on Mar 26, 2021 20:36:45 GMT
In case she was stuck in the middle in her mind- if I ignore, I might of given up an opportunity. I keep my pride but then I will always wonder. If she was somewhere in the middle, I make it very clear what my rule is and if she wants me around, she will have to play by my rules (keeping me in a position of power and framing any relationship fwb, bf/gf, etc. that way). 8.7.1
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Post by JackZero on Mar 26, 2021 21:16:36 GMT
In case she was stuck in the middle in her mind- if I ignore, I might of given up an opportunity. I keep my pride but then I will always wonder. If she was somewhere in the middle, I make it very clear what my rule is and if she wants me around, she will have to play by my rules (keeping me in a position of power and framing any relationship fwb, bf/gf, etc. that way). 8.7.1 You know that it didn't come across as her playing by your rules, right? It more or less came off as "let's have dinner" and she declined. I understand the need to feel like you're in control, but sometimes being in control doesn't require you demonstrating it. Her: how are you doing?Her: Telling ur new girlfriend a bunch of crazy stories about me? lolShe's telling you that she's thinking about you and wondering if you have found somebody else. You: Lol realize I am the love of your life yet I can tell you in person if you apologize by giving me a nice kiss and looking me in the eyes and tell me how much you love me and have a nice candle light dinner with me (ordered from somewhere nice). Then we can actually discuss like adults in real life...
This statement by you is so you. You show your cards stating that you DO want to see her but you'll only do it if she apologizes, kisses you, and say that she loves you. Because you didn't let her say what she had to say, you pushed her away with your demands. She reached out to you. She was thinking about you and in one single text, you threw all of your leverage out the window. If you wanted to enforce your rules, you could have ignored her until she figured out a way back in your good graces. You could have just said you were doing well and that you were about to go to sleep. You could have done things in so many different ways...but you gave up what little power you had for that situation.
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Post by curtis72 on Mar 26, 2021 22:33:19 GMT
I'm just confused why you threw everything back in her face with your response. Why would she want to see you if you were being a dick to her over message?
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Post by flyingbanana on Mar 26, 2021 23:36:17 GMT
I'm just confused why you threw everything back in her face with your response. Why would she want to see you if you were being a dick to her over message? Well, look at it this way, she ended it right - I told her not to reach out for friendship, I established the fact that I do not have any interest in her and I having any kind of friendship type relationship. Yet, she still reached out to me. When she did, I gave her a chance to see me but on my terms. 8.7.1
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